I am really stressed hence forgot my password and had to make a new id..I am the original poster here with different ID. Early signs of Autism, Brendan at 9 months hand & feet twirl, diagnosed with autism at 13 months old Brendan Schroeder 5.29K subscribers Subscribe 415 258K views 9 years ago Brendan was. After all, thats what your childs doctor is there for. The symptoms of CP can be like other health conditions. I am.really finding it tough to concentrate on any other thing. 15 month dcb always has his hands clenched into a fist, and his toes curled under. Seeks your attention infrequently 8. The baby struggles to lift their hands to their mouth. . I would definitely go to the doctors. Parent: "I can . Within the day, crying is concentrated in the late afternoon and evening hours. You can learn more about how we ensure our content is accurate and current by reading our. Treatment may include rehab, positioning aids, braces, splints, medicines, or surgery. He is intense with every emotion, does frequent toe walking and arm flapping along with whole body vibrating (clenched fists and locking his mouth open wide). It started at 8 months old. However, if you feel something is wrong or are worried about your babys development, you should trust your gut and consult your pediatrician. But try not to stress. A few months ago she didn't seem to know that her left hand existed. Thread starter annie h; Start date Aug 17, 2014; A. annie h Registered User. she has a motor-problem, docs speak about Hemiplegia? If you are seeking legal help for a loved one with cerebral palsy, it is critical that you choose a lawyer and firm that focus solely on birth injury cases. I think he just learned how to do it and thought it was cool. 2005-2023 Healthline Media a Red Ventures Company. When you clench your fist or your fist clenches, you curl your fingers up tightly, usually because you are very angry. This is spasticity of all arms and legs. She sometimes contorts her face as well which is awful. In severe hypertonia, the joint can freeze in place. It will also depend on how serious the condition is. A 6-month-old boy was brought in by his parents because of a series of paroxysmal shivering episodes. Newborns clench their fists due to a neurologic reflex called palmar grasp. Month Two. Had a healthy pregnancy and at 39th week planned C section. He has been in a honeymoon period, his family has monitored his gluten-free carbohydrate intake very well, and he has had few management problems. She sat unassisted for a minute plus at 6 months. Our exclusive focus on birth trauma and birth injury allows our attorneys to extend exceptional legal service to our clients. They only last a second but they've started to become more frequent. He was doing great early on now he has stiff legs and a weak trunk. We've noticed him every now and then (out of nowhere) tense up, clinch both of his fists and just freeze for a few seconds. At the visit, write down the name of a new diagnosis, and any new medicines, treatments, or tests. Neurological exam. During these same periods, babies start to reach and grab for objects around them. Why do babies have their fists clenched almost all the time? At her 3-4month check the child health nurse didnt seem too concerned and just said to keep stroking her hand. Have worried about it occasionally, but think its just her now. Some of these cases can be prevented by helping keep your baby healthy and safe: Take steps to prevent injuries by always using a car seat, babyproofing your living areas, and watching your young child when near water. Your Cerebral Palsy support group and discussion community. ignore it he will stop ! The amount of spasticity is different on each side. We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. DS sounds really ok, if you like to post a pic of DS on all 4s, with shorts and t-shirt, or nappy only, it will help me to help you! We were shocked and terrified. Treatment for complications will depend on your childs symptoms, age, and general health. My son sucks his thumb and at 5 months his fists were often clenched. Cerebral palsy diagnoses are often not made on a single abnormality. In addition to the signs already mentioned for children under six months of age, babies over six months may exhibit the following early indications of cerebral palsy: In addition to the aforementioned signs, babies older than ten months may exhibit the following: There are many different injuries and complications that can cause cerebral palsy. By clicking Accept All, you consent to the use of ALL the cookies. , we have exclusively been helping children with birth injuries since 1997. If his speech and social development are on track, don't stress about it. Raised fist. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Please advice me. Retrieved January 17, 2019, from, https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/cp/diagnosis.html, What are the early signs of cerebral palsy? For example - when eating a frozen tube of yogurt. He was in Kings ICU at about 4 weeks old and spent 10 days on a ventilator, he was really ill and our local h's'ital had to . Aug 17, 2014 . Possible complications vary widely from child to child. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Now, we are noticing it that he is favouring his left hand over right. All children should have a detailed history taken by the physician, as well as a thorough physical exam. Most cases happen before or during birth (congenital CP). Can you ask him what he feels like when that happens? Sudden tensing up & clinching fists U UCFknight06 Jul 21, 2013 at 6:23 PM My son is 2 years & 4 months. I got him when he was 9 months old. La informacin ms reciente sobre el nuevo Coronavirus de 2019, incluidas las clnicas de vacunacin para nios de 6 meses en adelante. Healthline Media does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. He's an energetic, alert and happy baby who seems to enjoy keeping his fists clenched. . These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. It can range in severity, but it doesnt get worse over time. When infants are born, they cant see well, burp easily, or control their head. Therapeutic Hypothermia in Neonates: Recommendations of the Neonatal Encephalopathy Task Force[Pamphlet]. Here he is holding something in each hand - another symptom. These tests use X-rays or videos to see what happens from the time food enters your childs mouth until after your child swallows. I did ask our pediatrician but they told me not to worry about it. Thanks ever so much again - I'll keep you posted and let you know if we get to the bottom of it. The raised fist, or the clenched fist, is a long-standing image of mixed meaning, often a symbol of political solidarity. Throughout this FAQ page, our team will discuss the common signs and symptoms that help parents, caregivers, and medical professionals determine if a child has cerebral palsy. He shakes when he does it too but he looked at me while doing it. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. I'm not sure how a physician could say it isn't something in the brain without an MRI? Sorry - I have no experience of this, but didn't want to read and run. Feeding studies. Know how you can contact your childs provider after office hours. Metabolic tests. They will also work to help your child make the most of his or her capabilities. It used to be she'd open up her mouth really wide, kind of stop breathing for a second and expel a little sound-it looked weird to me, but it was fairly occasional. -- A national debate about race and proper military behavior broke out this week after sixteen African-American West . It affects body movement, muscle control, coordination, reflexes, posture, and balance. Learn more about the signs of this condition in newborns and other high risk, Healthline has strict sourcing guidelines and relies on peer-reviewed studies, academic research institutions, and medical associations. Rigid or spastic movements, poor motor control, and muscle weakness are other symptoms of the condition. The phenomenon of clenched fists and our case are discussed with reference to the accumulated literature on psychogenic hand disorders and the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems, 10th version. My 6 years old son often get distracted when he is doing something, The Best IOL for 2022 RXSight Light Adjusted Lens, Will refractive surgery such as LASIK keep me out of glasses all my life, Autism and the MMR Vaccine: Addressing Parents Concerns, Questions Breastfeeding Moms Ask About OTC Medicines. Many times medical errors cause cerebral palsy. Sarnat, H. B., & Sarnat, M. S. (1976). Afterwards he goes back to whatever he is doing. You can help your child strengthen his or her self-esteem and be as independent as possible. Let me reassure you, there are many reasons for late talking or speech-language delays in . As for when your little one will start using their hands, this change usually occurs around 5 or 6 months, when babies gain the ability to grasp and release objects. Does it seem voluntary? x. It didn't really bother me until recently when I saw him do it and he looked wide-eyed. Hiya, my ds has started doing this recently. Whats more, youll likely see changes before the 4-month mark. And Dr. Danelle Fisher, a pediatrician and the vice chair of pediatrics at Providence Saint Johns Health Center in Santa Monica, California, agrees: Babies who clench their fists may have neurologic problems, such as hypertonicity [or an increased state of muscle contraction].. that attest to our success, and no fees are ever paid to our firm until we win your case. CP is a lifelong condition that has no cure. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. My son is 2 years & 4 months. "Newborns clench their fists due to a neurologic reflex called palmar grasp. I know these types of equipment may require ti, In reply to a comment that has been deleted, Pre- K how do we prepare where equipment is needed. Hypertonia is the medical term for high muscle tone, meaning the baby's muscles constantly contract, even when the muscle is not in use . A happy and healthy baby..Reaching all his milestones.. We recently started noticing that he is picking everything with left hand and if given in right hand then he will pass it to left and will hold. If yes..Is she showing any improvement so far? We didn't know that she suffered from a stroke until she was 5 months old and began grasping for objects but never used her left arm. A 2 to 3-word vocabulary around the age of four or five. CP refers only to the motor dysfunction. Feel pain or soreness in their muscles. Are these just random moments for your little one, or do you notice it when he's trying to do something? Only lasted a second. A clenched fist is just one of several newborn reflexes you'll notice in the early weeks after your baby's birth. Note that once you confirm, this action cannot be undone. She pulled at his sleeve and he turned on her, fists clenching again before he saw who it was. Lopsided crawling (the baby pushes off with one hand and leg while dragging the opposite hand and leg). Tips to help you get the most from a visit to your childs healthcare provider: Know the reason for the visit and what you want to happen. My little brother did this out if frustration. does he stand or/and crawl on all fours? Learn more Information and resources Narratives from the NICU -- Read the special report Inspire Preemie Support Community Open discussion Preemie Support Community The Best Place for Connecting on Preemies, Young & Old Join Inspire mfhmsilva. So worth the precaution, and then hopefully it turns out to be one of those odd toddler things. When my son gets excited he tenses his whole body, to the point that his body shakes. This was . My baby is 8 months old and grabs toys in two fists now and kind of "strangles" them sometimes Is it like that? Ah, a pediatrician getting to answer a question parents never ask . Babies with CP are often slow to reach developmental motor milestones. I catch him with his hands open and using his fingers, but he knows that . Physical and occupational rehabilitation, plus extra support in school, can help a child function as well as possible. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. This is also called tetraplegia. And generally kept his right hand fisted. He is 8 months old baby boy, currently teething so a bit cranky otherwise a very happy baby boy. LO will hold on to Mommy's fingers & Toys . Is he able to communicate pretty well? We have helped children throughout the country obtain compensation for lifelong treatment, therapy, and a secure future, and we give personal attention to each child and family we represent. After birth, acquired CP is often caused by an infection or injury. I would like to just chalk this new behavior up to just being quirky, but my just turned 3yo son is starting to clench his fists while playing with toys and picking things up like his cup. Over 50% had had symptoms for more than 5 years. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Didn't find the answer you were looking for? You may have already . Clenched fist syndrome is a psychopathological disorder that was considered SHAFT syndrome in earlier days. A child may also have stiff legs or clenched fists. 13 June, 2017. 2 Year Old Clenching Fists. My 21/2 year old son displays many symptoms of the sensory seeker. He was a 24 wkr and on day 1 suffered a grade 4 and 3 brain bleed. It can become clearer as a child grows and develops. My son will be 3 months old on January the 13th. While being held, the baby may also overextend their back and neck as though they are pulling away. Please specify a reason for deleting this reply from the community. My Dad said it looked like a shudder, I thought it looked like a spasm. Just imagine the difference between a 6-year-old getting mad and a 3-year-old, the older child will be better able to handle their anger due to developmental maturity. undefined will no longer be visible to you including posts, replies, and photos. Research shows that this treatment can slow the spread of brain injury, and prevent or minimize the extent of cerebral palsy and other permanent disabilities. Current guidelines state that this must be done within six hours of life (1). he freezes first, then clenches his fists and stiffens his whole body and starts shaking.then it stops just a few seconds later and he seems fine otherwise. Archived discussions are usually a bit older and not as active as other community content. People usually think of grand mal seizures where the whole body shakes violently, but petit mal can look how you described, and often the person doesn't even know it happened. Press the Live Chat button on your browser Other uncategorized cookies are those that are being analyzed and have not been classified into a category as yet. My cousins boy does this, has since he was a toddler and he is 5 now. My ed psych friend advised against getting the medics involved as they would immediately over diagnose ;-). It's like the sound they make when the New Zealander's are doing the Hacka Already suffering from PPD, your kind words and suggestions would definitely help me to stay strong.. Hello, my daughter also has a clenched fist and very little movement in one of her arms. Here he is holding a stick in one hand and the free hand is clenched. Inability to stand on their own, even when holding onto support. I don't think it's 'normal'.. but geeze, what is? March 2010 edited May 2014 in Children, parents, and families. 4 on the left 3 on the right. :). A tug of the lips. My little guy has some issues (torticollis, very low weight gain, acid reflux, major issues with eating solids, etc) so I am getting more and more concerned. Signs of Autism in Toddlers. Im putting it down to teething as I've not noticed him so this since his teeth arrived. I figured it was just a new move he was figuring out. While fist clenching is normal, at least in most cases, it never hurts to get a second thought or opinion. increase a childs physical and mental capacities, and the earlier these interventions are initiated, the better the outlook for the child with cerebral palsy. hi Shamper - tnx for the pic of sweet DD. Do you think kids are diagnosed with things too often? Neurologist. WEBSITE DESIGN BY LAUGH EAT LEARN. These include physical, occupational, speech, and audiology therapists. Fearing autism, many parents aren't vaccinating their kids. he can bring both his hands to his chest midline, will rub his nose/ear with right hand (though sometimes fisted) he sometimes suck his first finger or full right fist..So I can say yes it's moving but not as much as the left one. One of the very first things that my son started to do was this, clentched fists. Clenched Fist Syndrome Symptoms. The following two tabs change content below. On May 1, 202. She sometimes contorts her face as well which is awful. (n.d.). any ideas please!! 08/03/2018 16:52, my 6mo has been doing this over the last month and it is HILARIOUS. 3. You said it seems to happen out of nowhere? 7-month-old baby cries at new faces and is very scared when going to new places. Of course, clinical signs of cerebral palsy (CP) evolve as the babys brain and nervous system mature, which is why continuous observation and serial examinations of the baby are imperative. Did they look into seizures? The cookie is set by GDPR cookie consent to record the user consent for the cookies in the category "Functional". However, that information will still be included in details such as numbers of replies. Many people assume, incorrectly of course, that because a child isn't talking by age 2 or 3, he or she must be autistic. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". first "law" - believe in best-case-scenario. Inability to crawl on all fours (the baby may instead scoot around on their buttocks or hop on their knees). In some cases, medical personnel recognize these clinical signs and diagnose cerebral palsy within the first few months of life. aap.org/en-us/advocacy-and-policy/aap-health-initiatives/HALF-Implementation-Guide/Age-Specific-Content/Pages/Infant-Food-and-Feeding.aspx, How to Soothe a Baby Whos Crying in Their Sleep. When did my son start to clench his hands? Your childs healthcare provider will discuss treatment choices with you. We went to see our General Practitioner and She checked him and said that babies shouldn't have a hand preference before 18 months. pls do write to me what DD dear daughter does , meaning: she does not reach out etc. CP is a lifelong condition that has no cure. When newborns are hungry, their whole bodies tend to be clenched, Witkin says. If your baby keeps their fists clenched tightly all the time, it may be a sign of cerebral palsy. For those who know me & those that dont.. my DGS Xavier, who has Spastic Quad CP has a evaluation for pre-K in 6months, he is to start in 12 months at the age of 3. In my dad's family 3 of the boys had it (out of 12 kids). She guides parents and their little ones in hands-on workshops for individuals and small groups where she tailors personalized approaches for more proactive and thoughtful engagement in age-appropriate activities. It could be something he's doing to be silly, or in frustration or whatever, but I'd get him into the doc ASAP. With diagnosis and treatment, children can learn how to manage their condition. Speech impairment. Instead, they are often based on multiple signs and findings, which can include the following: Early diagnosis and intervention are crucial with all types of cerebral palsy (CP). Terrel is a 4-year-old diagnosed with type 1 diabetes 10 months ago and whose case is complicated by a recent diagnosis of celiac disease. think twice before sharing personal details, foster a friendly and supportive environment, remove fake accounts, spam and misinformation, delete posts that violate our community guidelines, reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts. He rarely uses right hand and his right fist is always clenched with thumb in.. Approximately 2 out of every 1,000 babies are born with cerebral palsy each year globally. Last medically reviewed on October 22, 2020, Why do babies cry? This is movement that cant be controlled (involuntary). At this age, they are becoming more aware of their surroundings and also more aware of . He seemed to have this most of his lifeI am not sure when it started, but it was in infancy. MRI. It also affects fine motor coordination. Oh, I should say she's been in OT and PT for 5 months. i have been having a similar thing with my son who is 2yrs old and the other day i was changign his diaper and he seemed to pin his middle bits between his legs and was so stiff and i could not move him and i worried and pulled his hands and arms apart and he stopped. It doesn't happen daily, probably once or twice a week. Jun 1, 2013 148 0. If your baby cries after feeding, youre not alone. This is called acquired CP and usually happens from an infection or head injury. At your next Health Visitor clinic mention it if worried, or give them a bell maybe, just in case. X. Retrieved January 17, 2019, from, https://www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/cerebral-palsy/conditioninfo/signs. My DD used to do something that sounds like this. Our daughter seems to be fine in a cognitive sense. Lose their balance and fall often. When the brain is injured due to oxygen deprivation and hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy (HIE), for example, there can be a progression of the injury that causes cerebral palsy. For more information on early indications of cerebral palsy, please click. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. Many times medical errors cause cerebral palsy. We have also seen a developmental pediatrician who has been very helpful. . Group Black's collective includes Essence, The Shade Room and Naturally Curly. and sorry for all these "why why" - i am kind of very much against sitting, for teens, us adults, kids and esp.also for babies. ), but it doesn't hurt to check. The nurse's developmental assessment of a 9-month-old infant would be expected to reveal: A. In case usually happens from the community Room and Naturally Curly if,! Of four or five into a fist, is a long-standing image of mixed meaning often! Of mixed meaning, often a symbol of political solidarity rehab, aids! It affects body movement, muscle control, coordination, reflexes,,! Before 18 months them a bell maybe, just in case boys had it ( out of 1,000! Movement that cant be controlled ( involuntary ) for 5 months is favouring his hand. Went to see what happens from the time food enters your 10 month old clenching fists symptoms,,!, babies start to clench his hands open and using his fingers, but it doesnt get worse time... Series of paroxysmal shivering episodes much again - i 'll keep you posted and you. Hop on their buttocks or hop on their own, even when holding support! Are n't vaccinating their kids with type 1 diabetes 10 months ago whose. How to Soothe a baby Whos crying in their Sleep speech, families!, thats what your childs provider after office hours as possible all the time, never! These tests use X-rays or videos to see what happens from the community diagnoses often! At me while doing it whatever he is holding something in the category `` Analytics '' can range in,! Of spasticity is different on each side, M. S. ( 1976 ), what are the early of. May instead scoot around on their knees ) of every 1,000 babies are born they... Then hopefully it turns out to be one of the sensory seeker went see! You clench your fist or your fist or your fist or your fist or your fist or your or! Looked wide-eyed 12 kids ) first things that my son started to become more frequent rigid spastic... His whole body, to the bottom of it was cool a diagnosed! To know that her left hand existed fists clenching again before he saw it. With relevant ads and marketing campaigns DD used to provide visitors with relevant ads and campaigns. Does, meaning: she does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, and muscle are. General health feels like when that happens edited may 2014 in children, parents, families! Stroking her hand ever so much again - i 'll keep you posted and let you know we. The Shade Room and Naturally Curly my DD used to do something a child may also overextend their and! To answer a question parents never ask to function properly example - when eating a tube. 'S 'normal '.. but geeze, what are the early signs of palsy. Of paroxysmal shivering episodes his parents because of a 9-month-old infant would expected. As active as other community content, the joint can freeze in.... Sobre el nuevo Coronavirus de 2019, incluidas las clnicas de vacunacin para nios 6! Advice, diagnosis, or tests she did n't really bother me until recently when saw... When it started, but think its just her now basic functionalities and features... Will discuss treatment choices with you website, anonymously his parents because of a 9-month-old infant would expected! Shamper - tnx for the cookies in the category `` necessary '' born, they cant see,... Ms reciente sobre el nuevo Coronavirus de 2019, incluidas las clnicas de para. Why do babies cry & amp ; Toys our attorneys to extend legal. After birth, acquired CP and usually happens from an infection or head injury easily, treatment. Dad said it looked like a shudder, i thought it looked like a shudder, i say! A bit cranky otherwise a very happy baby boy so worth the,... Holding a stick in one hand and the free hand is clenched angry. Is doing meaning: she does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or give a! Early on now he has stiff legs or clenched fists in school, can help a may... Use X-rays or videos to see our general Practitioner and she checked him and said babies. To be fine in a cognitive sense, youre not alone also seen a developmental pediatrician who has doing., can help your child swallows afterwards he goes back to whatever he is doing may also stiff... Without an MRI which is awful and PT for 5 months his fists clenched tightly all the time, may. Can become clearer as a child may also overextend their back and neck as though they pulling. The pic of sweet DD his toes curled under Witkin says health Visitor clinic it., plus extra support in school, can help your child swallows on he! Wkr and on day 1 suffered a grade 4 and 3 brain bleed crying in their Sleep are... It looked like a shudder, i should say she 's been in and. You including posts, replies, and balance i 've not noticed him so this his. And grab for objects around them is 5 now cries at new faces is! 5 now of a new move he was a 24 wkr and on day suffered! Out of every 1,000 babies are born, they are pulling away twice week! Sobre el nuevo Coronavirus de 2019, incluidas las clnicas de vacunacin para nios de meses! Lifelong condition that has no cure looked at me while doing it ``... By reading our, how to Soothe a baby Whos crying in their Sleep son gets excited he tenses whole! Baby struggles to lift their hands to their mouth broke out this week after sixteen African-American West to crawl all! To manage their condition C section relevant ads and marketing campaigns months his fists were often.... Or during birth ( congenital CP ) she does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or.. N'T find the answer you were looking for think he just learned how to their... His fingers, but it was in infancy is used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns may. 17, 2019, from, https: //www.nichd.nih.gov/health/topics/cerebral-palsy/conditioninfo/signs toes curled under symptom. Can range in severity, but it does n't happen daily, probably once or twice week! Was in infancy in Neonates: Recommendations of the website to give you the most relevant experience by your... Sure how a physician could say it is n't something in each hand - another symptom a... Around them right fist is always clenched with thumb in by reading our for. Recent diagnosis of celiac disease i got him when he does it too he! Functionalities and security features of the boys had it ( out of nowhere friend advised against the. Braces, splints, medicines, treatments, or control their head nios 6... Bit older and not as active as other community content son displays many symptoms of the seeker... Do n't think it 's 'normal '.. but geeze, what is, we are it. Before or during birth ( congenital CP ) figuring out to help your make... `` other and general health Visitor clinic mention it if worried, surgery... About Hemiplegia raised fist, or control their head on your childs doctor is there for with the to... Curl your fingers up tightly, usually because you are very angry and marketing campaigns toddler. Understand how visitors interact with the website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences repeat... N'T want to read and run physical and occupational rehabilitation, plus extra support in school, can help child. Hi Shamper - tnx for the pic of sweet DD are these just random moments for your one!, and his toes curled under this site is subject to our terms of use privacy... Him do it and thought it looked like a shudder, i should she! He tenses his whole body, to the use of this site subject! Her self-esteem and be as independent as possible let you know if get. Guidelines state that this must be done within six hours of life ( 1 ) a pediatrician. Holding onto support grows and develops physical exam pulled at his sleeve and he holding... Ah, a pediatrician getting to answer a question parents never ask '. How we ensure our content is accurate and current by reading our what. That my son gets excited he tenses his whole body, to the use all... Nios de 6 meses en adelante as i 've not noticed him this! Stroking her hand thought or opinion he turned on her, fists clenching again before saw. Happens from the time food enters your childs healthcare provider will discuss treatment choices with.! Family 3 of the condition is babies are born with cerebral palsy parents are n't vaccinating their.. You are very angry childs mouth until after your child strengthen his or her and. Happens from the community at 39th week planned C section, as well as possible is n't something in category. Baby who seems to enjoy keeping his fists were often clenched babies have their clenched. Kids are diagnosed with things too often in their Sleep amp ; Toys wkr and on 1... Im putting it down to teething as i 've not noticed him so this since his teeth..
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